Holden arrives back at the hotel from Ernie’s. Once in the elevator, Maurice, the elevator man, offers Holden a prostitute for five dollars. Out of depression, he agrees. About fifteen minutes later, Holden meets Sunny; a “nervous” blonde who he claims is “young as hell”. He doesn’t feel sexy; in fact he says “Sexy was about the last thing I was feeling. I felt much more depressed than sexy.” Therefore he tells the prostitute that he just had an operation on his clavichord and that he’s still recuperating. He pays her five, but she argues that it’s ten. She finally accepts, but later on, she and Maurice persistently knock on the door. Maurice abuses Holden while Sunny retrieves the money. Holden feels like committing suicide by jumping out a window.
As Holden’s sexual impulses keep growing, he has a strong desire to be an adult and to experience adult acts such as sex. His sexual interests begin on the train to New York with Ernest Morrow’s mother, Mrs. Morrow. She is a “good-looking” and “charming” woman who has a “terrifically nice smile” and “quite a lot of sex appeal”. When he arrives in New York, he feels “pretty horny” and calls Faith Cavendish, a “burlesque stripper or something”. Finally, in Chapter 13, Holden has a chance to have a sexual encounter with Sunny, but chooses not to. He is held back by his fragile innocence or in other words, his virginity. While waiting for Sunny, Holden worries about losing his virginity to a prostitute. It is “against his principles.” In addition, he mentions on page ninety-two, “If you want to know the truth, I’m a virgin. I really am.” Thus Holden is found in constant conflict. The pressure of his growing sexuality causes him to meet people like Maurice and Sunny. Unfortunately, his encounters are nothing compared to what he fantasizes about and he’s usually left feeling more depressed than ever as well as alienated and alone.
Even though Holden’s sexual fantasies are growing, he surprisingly has a jaded view of sexuality. In Chapter eleven, he believes that Jane’s “booze hound” stepfather, Mr. Cuhady, “had tried to get wise with her”. He may associate sexuality with the actions such as “that Cuhady bastard’s” rapacious behaviour towards Jane. That is why Holden has such a perception on sexuality. This also influences Holden’s idea that all adults are dangerous.
Holden’s experience with Sunny also serves as a reminder of his view of women as either purely virginal or irredeemable whores. An example of a “purely virginal” girl is Jane. Holden has always described Jane in a non-sexual way, saying that she’s athletic and funny. He states at the beginning of Chapter eleven that, “You don’t have to get sexy to know a girl.” An example of an “irredeemable whore” is Sunny. When Holden meets Sunny, he notices that she’s an anxious girl; she kept “jiggling this one foot up and down”. She also kept asking if Holden had a watch on him because she probably wanted to get the heck out of there. While he was hanging Sunny’s green dress in the closet, Holden felt “sort of sad”. He thought, “I thought of her going in a store and buying it, and nobody in the store knowing she was a prostitute and all. The salesman probably just thought she was a regular girl when she bought it. It made me feel sad as hell.”Consequently, Holden’s depression and his loss of sexual appetite ended his sexual meeting with Sunny.
One can also argue that death and darkness have found Holden on this particular night. Sunny represents the decay of the young girl she may have been. (This is another reason why Holden ends their sexual encounter). However, the events that followed with the return of Maurice and Sunny are so depressing that Holden actually thought he was dying. Death has been mentioned throughout the story because of Allie, Holden’s younger brother. Allie died of leukemia on July 18, 1946. Returning to the night in Chapter fourteen, Holden wishes to die, to drown, to get shot and to even commit suicide. He doesn’t though because of the fear of death that is not explicitly stated in the novel.
To conclude, Holden’s experience with Sunny represented youth, sexuality, death and served as a reminder on the view of women.
By inviting a prostitute to his room, Holden was inviting trouble. Being a virgin, he had no clue as to what he was required to do. Therefore, he had taken this as an opportunity to practice on her. As the narrator had stated,"Get in some practice on her, in case I ever get married or anything". This proves that Holden was going to use this chance to his benefit. Even though it was against his morals and even though he was depressed, he was able to look past it and look at the bright side.
However, once Sunny had arrived things had changed. Upon seeing Sunny, Holden didn't feel sexy. Which is rather odd, since in chapter eight he had found his colleagues mother quite good looking. In this chapter, he had examined this woman very closely, from her smile to the way she smoked. Upon stating that she was good looking, he had said,"Women kill me. They really do". This can make one wonder as to why he hadn't felt the same way toward Sunny. This can let us to conclude that Holden hadn't placed Sunny under the category of women. Since she is a prostitute, he doesn't consider her to be like regular women. This can be proven by Holden's thought when he says,"I don't want any old hag", on page ninety-one. Also, as he was taking with Sunny, he began criticizing her. He found her to be too nervous and thought that she didn't know her manners. For every other women the narrator talks about, they are described as friendly and good looking women. However, Sunny was an exception. This indicates how women were viewed by men.If the women had a single fault, she was different. Being a prostitute, Sunny was considered to be different.
Even though Holden was prepared to engage in sexual intercourse with Sunny, he wasn't able to do it upon meeting her. He had asked her if she felt "like talking for a while". This indicates his innocence. Holden may use his gray hair to look older in order to buy cocktails, however that doesn't hide his youth. By refusing to have sex with Sunny, Holden has revealed his child-like character. He had invited Sunny to his room thinking that he was an adult and that he was ready to have sex with her. However, his refusal had proved his youth.Another example of his youth would the time he was scared to go home because his mom would go berserk upon discovering him leaving Pencey Prep. His fear towards his mom proves his innocence. It indicates that Holden has not entered adulthood yet.
Therefore, Holden's encounter with Sunny signifies his innocence and it provided us an insight on the way society had viewed women.
There are some meaningful things to be explored during Holden’s encounter with Sunny. Before mentioning anything it is important to note that Holden is not a very sexual person and is in fact still a virgin. He is already a very awkward person, which only amplifies the fact that such an “inexperienced” person is bound to be rather awkward during a sexual encounter with a prostitute for the first time.
Before the whole scene, Holden had been through a lousy evening during which he danced with 3 relatively unattractive women attempting to have some fun which failed due to the lack of liveliness and attractiveness of the women. He also drank alone at a bar where he came across Lillian Simmons, a “strictly phony” (p.86) ex-girlfriend of D.B - Holden’s older brother, that annoyed him enough to make him leave. These events made it so that by the time Holden got back to the hotel, he was “so depressed he didn’t even think.” (p.91) It is an established fact that when one doesn’t think, he/she is bound to make mistakes and bad decisions. This is exactly what happened, demonstrated by Holden agreeing to hire the prostitute despite “it being against his principles and all.” (p.91) Shortly after he realized what he had done, he was “already sort of sorry he’d let the thing start rolling.”(p.91)
We also learn that like the majority of heterosexual males on this planet, Holden places a strong importance on how attractive a woman is. While speaking with Maurice, the pimp, he was curious about what she looked like and asked him if “she was good-looking.” (p.91 While waiting for Sunny, he nervously walked around the room “hoping she’d be good-looking” (p.93) which may have had to do with his disappointment with the three unattractive women he had met that night in the Lavender Room. In the previous paragraph it has been established that Holden is rather gloomy and generally suffering from a lack of motivation. This comes back to get him as he “felt peculiar” (p.94) when Sunny “stood up and pulled her dress over her head.”(p.94) Although under normal circumstances, a heterosexual pubescent young man would become sexually aroused and go on with the procedures, Holden did not. “Sexy was about the last thing” (p.95) he was feeling and in fact felt “much more depressed than sexy.”(p.95) He had to bail out of the incoming sexual transactions by lying about having had an operation on his clavichord, which the author uses to indicate to the audience that Holden Caulfield was not psychologically prepared to have his virginity and thus, his innocence, taken away from him.
Holden's interaction with Sunny gives readers greater insight as to what his actual personality is as opposed to the one he has created for the reader. Salinger created this encounter to put greater emphasis on certain key aspects of Holden's personality, which in turn helps the reader discern who exactly Holden Caulfield really is...
An important character trait of Holden's is his confusion concerning his sexuality and relationships. Holden's description of his relationship with Jane depicts that it is purely emotional and innocent, not in the least bit phony. The innocence of this relationship can be seen on page 79 when Holden states "I held hands with her all the time, for instance . . . You never even worried with Jane, whether your hand was sweaty or not. All you knew was, you were happy." Salinger shows that a gesture as simple and innocent as holding hands was enough to make Holden happy to be around Jane. This non physical relationship is paralled when Holden encounters Sunny. With Jane Holden was able to build an emotional relationship based solely on this aspect whereas with Sunny the relationship he could have had with her would have been purely physical. Holden views this as a phony relationship with no satisfaction and dismisses the prostitue. This raw sexuality that Sunny presents to Holden also symbolises something that Holden desires but fears at the same time. Being a teenager, Holden has a growing sexuality and a conflicting innocence which is perfectly represented by the prostitute who is of similar age to him.
Holden's encounter with Sunny also represents when his thoughts clash with the actual world. When Holden calls Faith Cavendish (Chapter 9) with the intent of "meeting up" with her, he has no second thoughts about what will transpire when he actually does meet her in person. He simply fantasises about the positive aspects of what this encounter can bring without putting much thought into what would really happen. This is later shown when he encounters Sunny. His thoughts of having a good time are interrupted by the reality of the situation which is that Sunny is a prostitute who is there to do a job. He panics when his false perspective of things shatters and he is confronted with the ugly truth that is before him, rejecting the interaction with Sunny.
Salinger created these situations to show readers that Holden is indeed not the suave individual he attempts to portray. He is instead a regualr teenager, one who is confused about individuality, his sexuality and various other things.
When Holden meets a young prostitute named Sunny, who was 'nervous for a prostitute' Holden says, 'She just didn't know any better' when he offers her a cigarette and she declines without saying thank you. This shows that Holden started to feel bad for her. WHen Holden says: "I thought of her going into the store, buying it and nobody in the store knowing she was a prostitute and all." This made Holden feel very sad because he could tell that she was 'young as hell' He showed his innoncence when he rejected the interactions with Sunny because he couldn't do that to her.
Throughtout the novel, Holden's views on sex and growing up and experiencing it changes alot. Witht he encounter with Mrs. Marrow a 'good looking' woman with 'sex appeal' attracted him and also like Kaitlen had mentioned on page 92, Holden says "If you want to know the trust, I'm a virgin, i really am." This shows that he did not want to give his innoncence to a prostitute.
We have already seen Holden’s actions towards women such as Ernie’s mom, the nuns, and the three women he danced with at the Lavender Room. What is common with these encounters is that they are all older women, and Holden seemed to handle them pretty well. With Ernie’s mom, Holden mentions that she is “very good-looking” (p.54) and he also mentions that he isn’t “oversexed... although I am quite sexy” (p.54) revealing that he was attracted to her. After saying that, Holden does not deny it or feel guilty about saying that Ernie’s mom is attractive.
Holden’s attraction to older women and his attraction to young women his age differ because he thinks his sexual thoughts about young women are wrong. An example of this would be his encounter with Sunny. When Holden meets Sunny he notices how young and innocent she is, and finds it very wrong to have sex with her. The difference in his sexual views about older women and those of young women is that he finds it wrong to have sex with younger women, possibly because if he were to have sex with a younger women, he would be degrading her or taking away her innocence.
When Sunny sits on the bed with Holden, the first thing he notices about her was that she was “young as hell”. (p.94) After noticing how nervous and childish Sunny was, Holden didn’t want to associate her with sex. On page 97, Holden says that it made him sad to hang her dress because it made him think about how everyone probably thought she was a regular girl when buying it and not a prostitute. You can tell Holden felt uncomfortable thinking of such a young girl as a prostitute. On page 95 Holden mention he felt “much more depressed than sexy” after Sunny took off her dress. This may be because he felt that she is no longer an innocent girl since she is a prostitute and is having sex for money.
In the end of that scene, Holden ends up not having sex with Sunny. He was glad he didn’t respond to her when she left saying, “So long, crumb bum”. (p. 98) Holden might have felt this way because he just wanted to get her over with and forget about her since she made him feel depressed.
While Holden waits for the prostitute, he feels a little nervous, "I was starting to feel pretty sexy and all but I was a little nervous anyways."(p.92). Even though he felt quite ready to lose his virginity to a prostitute, Holden still felt that something held him back because he'd made the decision out of depression and later will change his mind. Holden doesn't really know his place in society. He doesn't know if he belongs to the adult world or if he belongs to the young and innnocent world.
Near the beginning of the chapter, when Holden is waiting for the Prostitute to arrive, he seems more like and adult. He says,"I've had quite a few opportunities to lose my virginity and all, but I've never got around to it yet.Something always happens."(p.92) Here Holden talks about when he was previously about to lose his virginity,but never ends up doing so either because he is afraidor he feels sorry for them. He also talks about how he'd made mistakes before and that this time he would do it for sure.Holden sounds so sure of himself when he says,"I figured if she was a prostitute and all, I could get in some practice on her, in case I ever got married anything." (p.92) Here he sounds like an adult becasue he starts talking about marriage which is something that an adult is most likely to talk about,not an innocent child.
When the prostitute comes into the room, Holden realizes that she is very young to be a prostitute. He begins to "feel more depressed than sexy."(p.95) He didn't like that idea of being with a prostitute anymore. He says," It was really quite embarrassing."(p.95) His innocence was coming back and that is why later on, on page 96 he lies about having an operation on his clavichord. Since Holden didn't feel right about losing his virginity, he asks her, "Don't you feel like talking for a while?" (p.95) Right after that he thought it was a "childish thing to say." Even though Holden starts off acting like an adult, he ends up staying a virgin and keeping his innocence. This particular scence shows how he is in conflict with himself because he doesn't know where he belongs in society. He goes back and forth, between the phony adult world and staying in as a innocent child.
RESPONSE #3, QUESTION #2 TO "the best student" GEORGE'S POST
George brought up a point that I really agree with in his post. He said that this encounter showed Holden's true colors and finally revealed his true personality to the readers.
"Salinger created these situations to show readers that Holden is indeed not the suave individual he attempts to portray. He is instead a regular teenager, one who is confused about individuality, his sexuality and various other things." This paragraph that George concluded his post with pretty much summed everything up. Holden starts the book off by feeding the readers with false information regarding himself, like the fact that he is not prude. This can be seen on page 62, where he claims to be the "biggest sex maniac you ever saw". When Holden meets Sunny in chapter 13, we quickly learn that this information is untrue and that he is both confused and afraid of his sexuality. A perfect opportunity for Holden to lose his virginity is presented to him, yet Holden decides to reject it. This really shows a lot about him, once again leading readers to believe that he is a hypocrite and a huge liar.
When Holden is presented with the idea of sex by the pimp Maurice Holden even acknowledges that it’s against his principles, but Holden is a 17 year old boy with raging hormones; sex is on his mind. When Sunny arrives though sex is the last thing he wants to do, because even though he’s 17 he doesn’t act that age nor does he think with the mind of a 17 year old at all times. Holden’s rejection of Sunny’s sexual advances wasn’t surprising because it is not the first time he rejects sex. There is a time in the novel where he talks about making out in the back of a car with a girl, and the prospect of sex came up but he refused because he didn’t want to be that type of guy. What is significant about this to me is that this whole scene gives you another glimpse at how childlike and innocent Holden really is. But also how much he wants to protect Sunny, to try and keep her innocent and pure (even though it’s too late for that!) In some ways it’s almost foreshadowing.
QUESTION #2: POST #2
ReplyDeleteHolden arrives back at the hotel from Ernie’s. Once in the elevator, Maurice, the elevator man, offers Holden a prostitute for five dollars. Out of depression, he agrees. About fifteen minutes later, Holden meets Sunny; a “nervous” blonde who he claims is “young as hell”. He doesn’t feel sexy; in fact he says “Sexy was about the last thing I was feeling. I felt much more depressed than sexy.” Therefore he tells the prostitute that he just had an operation on his clavichord and that he’s still recuperating. He pays her five, but she argues that it’s ten. She finally accepts, but later on, she and Maurice persistently knock on the door. Maurice abuses Holden while Sunny retrieves the money. Holden feels like committing suicide by jumping out a window.
As Holden’s sexual impulses keep growing, he has a strong desire to be an adult and to experience adult acts such as sex. His sexual interests begin on the train to New York with Ernest Morrow’s mother, Mrs. Morrow. She is a “good-looking” and “charming” woman who has a “terrifically nice smile” and “quite a lot of sex appeal”. When he arrives in New York, he feels “pretty horny” and calls Faith Cavendish, a “burlesque stripper or something”. Finally, in Chapter 13, Holden has a chance to have a sexual encounter with Sunny, but chooses not to. He is held back by his fragile innocence or in other words, his virginity. While waiting for Sunny, Holden worries about losing his virginity to a prostitute. It is “against his principles.” In addition, he mentions on page ninety-two, “If you want to know the truth, I’m a virgin. I really am.” Thus Holden is found in constant conflict. The pressure of his growing sexuality causes him to meet people like Maurice and Sunny. Unfortunately, his encounters are nothing compared to what he fantasizes about and he’s usually left feeling more depressed than ever as well as alienated and alone.
Even though Holden’s sexual fantasies are growing, he surprisingly has a jaded view of sexuality. In Chapter eleven, he believes that Jane’s “booze hound” stepfather, Mr. Cuhady, “had tried to get wise with her”. He may associate sexuality with the actions such as “that Cuhady bastard’s” rapacious behaviour towards Jane. That is why Holden has such a perception on sexuality. This also influences Holden’s idea that all adults are dangerous.
Holden’s experience with Sunny also serves as a reminder of his view of women as either purely virginal or irredeemable whores. An example of a “purely virginal” girl is Jane. Holden has always described Jane in a non-sexual way, saying that she’s athletic and funny. He states at the beginning of Chapter eleven that, “You don’t have to get sexy to know a girl.” An example of an “irredeemable whore” is Sunny. When Holden meets Sunny, he notices that she’s an anxious girl; she kept “jiggling this one foot up and down”. She also kept asking if Holden had a watch on him because she probably wanted to get the heck out of there. While he was hanging Sunny’s green dress in the closet, Holden felt “sort of sad”. He thought, “I thought of her going in a store and buying it, and nobody in the store knowing she was a prostitute and all. The salesman probably just thought she was a regular girl when she bought it. It made me feel sad as hell.”Consequently, Holden’s depression and his loss of sexual appetite ended his sexual meeting with Sunny.
One can also argue that death and darkness have found Holden on this particular night. Sunny represents the decay of the young girl she may have been. (This is another reason why Holden ends their sexual encounter). However, the events that followed with the return of Maurice and Sunny are so depressing that Holden actually thought he was dying. Death has been mentioned throughout the story because of Allie, Holden’s younger brother. Allie died of leukemia on July 18, 1946. Returning to the night in Chapter fourteen, Holden wishes to die, to drown, to get shot and to even commit suicide. He doesn’t though because of the fear of death that is not explicitly stated in the novel.
ReplyDeleteTo conclude, Holden’s experience with Sunny represented youth, sexuality, death and served as a reminder on the view of women.
QUESTION#1 POST#1
ReplyDeleteBy inviting a prostitute to his room, Holden was inviting trouble. Being a virgin, he had no clue as to what he was required to do. Therefore, he had taken this as an opportunity to practice on her. As the narrator had stated,"Get in some practice on her, in case I ever get married or anything". This proves that Holden was going to use this chance to his benefit. Even though it was against his morals and even though he was depressed, he was able to look past it and look at the bright side.
However, once Sunny had arrived things had changed. Upon seeing Sunny, Holden didn't feel sexy. Which is rather odd, since in chapter eight he had found his colleagues mother quite good looking. In this chapter, he had examined this woman very closely, from her smile to the way she smoked. Upon stating that she was good looking, he had said,"Women kill me. They really do". This can make one wonder as to why he hadn't felt the same way toward Sunny. This can let us to conclude that Holden hadn't placed Sunny under the category of women. Since she is a prostitute, he doesn't consider her to be like regular women. This can be proven by Holden's thought when he says,"I don't want any old hag", on page ninety-one. Also, as he was taking with Sunny, he began criticizing her. He found her to be too nervous and thought that she didn't know her manners. For every other women the narrator talks about, they are described as friendly and good looking women. However, Sunny was an exception. This indicates how women were viewed by men.If the women had a single fault, she was different. Being a prostitute, Sunny was considered to be different.
Even though Holden was prepared to engage in sexual intercourse with Sunny, he wasn't able to do it upon meeting her. He had asked her if she felt "like talking for a while". This indicates his innocence. Holden may use his gray hair to look older in order to buy cocktails, however that doesn't hide his youth. By refusing to have sex with Sunny, Holden has revealed his child-like character. He had invited Sunny to his room thinking that he was an adult and that he was ready to have sex with her. However, his refusal had proved his youth.Another example of his youth would the time he was scared to go home because his mom would go berserk upon discovering him leaving Pencey Prep. His fear towards his mom proves his innocence. It indicates that Holden has not entered adulthood yet.
Therefore, Holden's encounter with Sunny signifies his innocence and it provided us an insight on the way society had viewed women.
Post #1: Question#2
ReplyDeleteThere are some meaningful things to be explored during Holden’s encounter with Sunny. Before mentioning anything it is important to note that Holden is not a very sexual person and is in fact still a virgin. He is already a very awkward person, which only amplifies the fact that such an “inexperienced” person is bound to be rather awkward during a sexual encounter with a prostitute for the first time.
Before the whole scene, Holden had been through a lousy evening during which he danced with 3 relatively unattractive women attempting to have some fun which failed due to the lack of liveliness and attractiveness of the women. He also drank alone at a bar where he came across Lillian Simmons, a “strictly phony” (p.86) ex-girlfriend of D.B - Holden’s older brother, that annoyed him enough to make him leave. These events made it so that by the time Holden got back to the hotel, he was “so depressed he didn’t even think.” (p.91) It is an established fact that when one doesn’t think, he/she is bound to make mistakes and bad decisions. This is exactly what happened, demonstrated by Holden agreeing to hire the prostitute despite “it being against his principles and all.” (p.91) Shortly after he realized what he had done, he was “already sort of sorry he’d let the thing start rolling.”(p.91)
We also learn that like the majority of heterosexual males on this planet, Holden places a strong importance on how attractive a woman is. While speaking with Maurice, the pimp, he was curious about what she looked like and asked him if “she was good-looking.” (p.91 While waiting for Sunny, he nervously walked around the room “hoping she’d be good-looking” (p.93) which may have had to do with his disappointment with the three unattractive women he had met that night in the Lavender Room. In the previous paragraph it has been established that Holden is rather gloomy and generally suffering from a lack of motivation. This comes back to get him as he “felt peculiar” (p.94) when Sunny “stood up and pulled her dress over her head.”(p.94) Although under normal circumstances, a heterosexual pubescent young man would become sexually aroused and go on with the procedures, Holden did not. “Sexy was about the last thing” (p.95) he was feeling and in fact felt “much more depressed than sexy.”(p.95) He had to bail out of the incoming sexual transactions by lying about having had an operation on his clavichord, which the author uses to indicate to the audience that Holden Caulfield was not psychologically prepared to have his virginity and thus, his innocence, taken away from him.
Post#2 Question#2
ReplyDeleteHolden's interaction with Sunny gives readers greater insight as to what his actual personality is as opposed to the one he has created for the reader. Salinger created this encounter to put greater emphasis on certain key aspects of Holden's personality, which in turn helps the reader discern who exactly Holden Caulfield really is...
An important character trait of Holden's is his confusion concerning his sexuality and relationships. Holden's description of his relationship with Jane depicts that it is purely emotional and innocent, not in the least bit phony. The innocence of this relationship can be seen on page 79 when Holden states "I held hands with her all the time, for instance . . . You never even worried with Jane, whether your hand was sweaty or not. All you knew was, you were happy." Salinger shows that a gesture as simple and innocent as holding hands was enough to make Holden happy to be around Jane. This non physical relationship is paralled when Holden encounters Sunny. With Jane Holden was able to build an emotional relationship based solely on this aspect whereas with Sunny the relationship he could have had with her would have been purely physical. Holden views this as a phony relationship with no satisfaction and dismisses the prostitue. This raw sexuality that Sunny presents to Holden also symbolises something that Holden desires but fears at the same time. Being a teenager, Holden has a growing sexuality and a conflicting innocence which is perfectly represented by the prostitute who is of similar age to him.
Holden's encounter with Sunny also represents when his thoughts clash with the actual world. When Holden calls Faith Cavendish (Chapter 9) with the intent of "meeting up" with her, he has no second thoughts about what will transpire when he actually does meet her in person. He simply fantasises about the positive aspects of what this encounter can bring without putting much thought into what would really happen. This is later shown when he encounters Sunny. His thoughts of having a good time are interrupted by the reality of the situation which is that Sunny is a prostitute who is there to do a job. He panics when his false perspective of things shatters and he is confronted with the ugly truth that is before him, rejecting the interaction with Sunny.
Salinger created these situations to show readers that Holden is indeed not the suave individual he attempts to portray. He is instead a regualr teenager, one who is confused about individuality, his sexuality and various other things.
George
Post #2. Question #2.
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden meets a young prostitute named Sunny, who was 'nervous for a prostitute' Holden says, 'She just didn't know any better' when he offers her a cigarette and she declines without saying thank you. This shows that Holden started to feel bad for her. WHen Holden says: "I thought of her going into the store, buying it and nobody in the store knowing she was a prostitute and all." This made Holden feel very sad because he could tell that she was 'young as hell' He showed his innoncence when he rejected the interactions with Sunny because he couldn't do that to her.
Throughtout the novel, Holden's views on sex and growing up and experiencing it changes alot. Witht he encounter with Mrs. Marrow a 'good looking' woman with 'sex appeal' attracted him and also like Kaitlen had mentioned on page 92, Holden says "If you want to know the trust, I'm a virgin, i really am." This shows that he did not want to give his innoncence to a prostitute.
Post #3 Question #2
ReplyDeleteWe have already seen Holden’s actions towards women such as Ernie’s mom, the nuns, and the three women he danced with at the Lavender Room. What is common with these encounters is that they are all older women, and Holden seemed to handle them pretty well. With Ernie’s mom, Holden mentions that she is “very good-looking” (p.54) and he also mentions that he isn’t “oversexed... although I am quite sexy” (p.54) revealing that he was attracted to her. After saying that, Holden does not deny it or feel guilty about saying that Ernie’s mom is attractive.
Holden’s attraction to older women and his attraction to young women his age differ because he thinks his sexual thoughts about young women are wrong. An example of this would be his encounter with Sunny. When Holden meets Sunny he notices how young and innocent she is, and finds it very wrong to have sex with her. The difference in his sexual views about older women and those of young women is that he finds it wrong to have sex with younger women, possibly because if he were to have sex with a younger women, he would be degrading her or taking away her innocence.
When Sunny sits on the bed with Holden, the first thing he notices about her was that she was “young as hell”. (p.94) After noticing how nervous and childish Sunny was, Holden didn’t want to associate her with sex. On page 97, Holden says that it made him sad to hang her dress because it made him think about how everyone probably thought she was a regular girl when buying it and not a prostitute. You can tell Holden felt uncomfortable thinking of such a young girl as a prostitute. On page 95 Holden mention he felt “much more depressed than sexy” after Sunny took off her dress. This may be because he felt that she is no longer an innocent girl since she is a prostitute and is having sex for money.
In the end of that scene, Holden ends up not having sex with Sunny. He was glad he didn’t respond to her when she left saying, “So long, crumb bum”. (p. 98) Holden might have felt this way because he just wanted to get her over with and forget about her since she made him feel depressed.
Post #1: Question #2
ReplyDeleteWhile Holden waits for the prostitute, he feels a little nervous, "I was starting to feel pretty sexy and all but I was a little nervous anyways."(p.92). Even though he felt quite ready to lose his virginity to a prostitute, Holden still felt that something held him back because he'd made the decision out of depression and later will change his mind. Holden doesn't really know his place in society. He doesn't know if he belongs to the adult world or if he belongs to the young and innnocent world.
Near the beginning of the chapter, when Holden is waiting for the Prostitute to arrive, he seems more like and adult. He says,"I've had quite a few opportunities to lose my virginity and all, but I've never got around to it yet.Something always happens."(p.92) Here Holden talks about when he was previously about to lose his virginity,but never ends up doing so either because he is afraidor he feels sorry for them. He also talks about how he'd made mistakes before and that this time he would do it for sure.Holden sounds so sure of himself when he says,"I figured if she was a prostitute and all, I could get in some practice on her, in case I ever got married anything." (p.92) Here he sounds like an adult becasue he starts talking about marriage which is something that an adult is most likely to talk about,not an innocent child.
When the prostitute comes into the room, Holden realizes that she is very young to be a prostitute. He begins to "feel more depressed than sexy."(p.95) He didn't like that idea of being with a prostitute anymore. He says," It was really quite embarrassing."(p.95) His innocence was coming back and that is why later on, on page 96 he lies about having an operation on his clavichord. Since Holden didn't feel right about losing his virginity, he asks her, "Don't you feel like talking for a while?" (p.95) Right after that he thought it was a "childish thing to say." Even though Holden starts off acting like an adult, he ends up staying a virgin and keeping his innocence. This particular scence shows how he is in conflict with himself because he doesn't know where he belongs in society. He goes back and forth, between the phony adult world and staying in as a innocent child.
RESPONSE #3, QUESTION #2 TO "the best student" GEORGE'S POST
ReplyDeleteGeorge brought up a point that I really agree with in his post. He said that this encounter showed Holden's true colors and finally revealed his true personality to the readers.
"Salinger created these situations to show readers that Holden is indeed not the suave individual he attempts to portray. He is instead a regular teenager, one who is confused about individuality, his sexuality and various other things." This paragraph that George concluded his post with pretty much summed everything up. Holden starts the book off by feeding the readers with false information regarding himself, like the fact that he is not prude. This can be seen on page 62, where he claims to be the "biggest sex maniac you ever saw". When Holden meets Sunny in chapter 13, we quickly learn that this information is untrue and that he is both confused and afraid of his sexuality. A perfect opportunity for Holden to lose his virginity is presented to him, yet Holden decides to reject it. This really shows a lot about him, once again leading readers to believe that he is a hypocrite and a huge liar.
When Holden is presented with the idea of sex by the pimp Maurice Holden even acknowledges that it’s against his principles, but Holden is a 17 year old boy with raging hormones; sex is on his mind. When Sunny arrives though sex is the last thing he wants to do, because even though he’s 17 he doesn’t act that age nor does he think with the mind of a 17 year old at all times. Holden’s rejection of Sunny’s sexual advances wasn’t surprising because it is not the first time he rejects sex. There is a time in the novel where he talks about making out in the back of a car with a girl, and the prospect of sex came up but he refused because he didn’t want to be that type of guy. What is significant about this to me is that this whole scene gives you another glimpse at how childlike and innocent Holden really is. But also how much he wants to protect Sunny, to try and keep her innocent and pure (even though it’s too late for that!) In some ways it’s almost foreshadowing.
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