Question #12
The novel ends in a somewhat peculiar way. The reader cannot be certain of whether Holden feels better than he did throughout the story. What do you interpret Holden to mean with the final line of the story, "Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody"?
POST #2 QUESTION #12
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden says "Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody." he is offering advice to the reader. He explains how he feels at the beginning of the page when he says "I'm sorry I told so many people about it... I sort of miss everybody I told about... Even old Stradlater and Ackley... I think I even miss that goddam Maurice."(214).
I believe Holden misses the people in his book because they were all significant people who influenced him during his nervous breakdown and without them, he would have never decided to go back to school and see a psychoanalyst (as mentioned on page 213). Perhaps when he recounts his tale to other people, his reminisces about the not-so-good ol' times where he wasn't sure just where he was going in life, and wishes he could thank those who literally knocked some sense into him (because they beat him up).
If it is indeed true that Holden thinks that way, then Holden actually caring about people is a sign that he is no longer the boy he was before and feels better than he did at the beginning of the story! Maybe the quote is showing us that Holden has become more comfortable around people and has overcome his hatred of phonies in order to pursue the affection of others and no longer has a need for isolation.
This idea can be backed up with quotes on page 213 and 214: "... I went home... I got sick...... this one psychoanalyst guy they have here, keeps asking me if I'm going to apply myself when I go back to school next September... I think I am... D.B. isn't as bad as the rest of them... I told so many people about it..." From what we can see on these pages, Holden has returned home and decided to go to a new school where he might apply himself to his studies after speaking to a psychoanalyst AND has spoken to others about his nervous breakdown when he mentions he told people about his story!
In the end, Holden's last line in the book is probably just him trying to make sense of his new feelings. Although it is true that talking about the past may make you miss some people, I don't think Holden would have made a point to talk about it if reminiscing was the problem here. It's the fact that Holden actually misses someone other than his deceased brother Allie, and some of his old teachers, that is important. This shows Holden's progress after his nervous breakdown.
-Patricia
POST #3 QUESTION #12
ReplyDelete“Don’t tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody” (page 214) seems like a very depressing outlook to have on life. I think that Holden is telling the readers not to make connections with people, because if you do it will cause you suffering. In his experience, at the young age of thirteen, Holden lost somebody he truly loved, his dear brother Allie who was only ten. That loss is what ignited his depression and every new loss that Holden had gone through (being kicked out of 3 schools, failed friendships and romances that were never seen through) lead him into a deeper depression. Holden has been through so much in three years. Getting close to people, in his experience, leads to pain.
I don’t think that Holden feels better at the end of the book or that he has changed in any way throughout the novel. Between page 1 and page 213, Holden is simply telling us readers how he ended up “here.” On page 1 he says “I’ll just tell you about this madman stuff that happened around last Christmas just before I got pretty run-down and had to come out here and take it easy.” Holden states on page 213 “That’s all I’m going to tell you about. I could probably tell you what I did after I went home, and how I got sick and all, and what school I’m supposed to go to next fall, after I get out of here, but I don’t feel like it. I really don’t. That stuff doesn’t interest me too much right now. This one psychoanalysis guy they have here…” I think the here that he ends up in is a hospital of some sort where he is being treated for depression.
To conclude, Holden is in no better shape at the end of the novel than throughout it because as we can see on page 213, he is still disinterested in anything, like the boy we saw throughout the novel. What I thought was an obnoxious boy was really a troubled teenager suffering from depression.
-Ariana
POST #1 QUESTION #12
ReplyDeleteHolden finishes on an important yet confusing line; "Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody". Now this sentence is to be applied more towards the people who are and were in his life. Basically Holden is trying to say you can think about them all you want but the second you start verbalizing your feelings towards the past, the thoughts linger in your mind. Causing you to miss everybody as Holden put it.
The perfect example of this would be on page 171 were Holden says that he likes Allie and Phoebe says that he is dead. Then the response you see from Holden is very aggressive “I know he’s dead!”, you see how having brought up the past changed Holden’s mood and temperament for that segment. And countless other times he had brought up his sister and old friends in conversation after which he “felt depressed” or almost regretful from the outcome.
Bringing up such issues to aid in closure and comfort despite their hopeful positive outcome in many cases lead to the feeling of absence. You see this in the example given and as well have probably been in a similar situation throughout the course of your life as it is common psychology to have that sensation.
~Justin
Response #3 to Patricia's Post
ReplyDeleteAlthough Patricai's overall statement, that Holden is slowly opening up to others and is not being as judgemental as seen throughout the novel(as seen from what Patricia mentions from page 214 when Holden states "I'm sorry I told so many people about it... I sort of miss everybody I told about... Even old Stradlater and Ackley... I think I even miss that goddam Maurice."), is an agreable one, the statement at hand mentions something quite different.
When Holden states "Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.", Salinger hints at the possibility that Holden might not have changed as drastically as Patricia seems to believe. This statement can be interpreted as Holden still being afraid of making connections with other people, resulting in Holden not having changed too much throughout the novel.
While Patricia's main idea is correct, her perception of Holden as having completely "overcome his hatred of phonies in order to pursue the affection of others and no longer has a need for isolation." is a little too farfetched.
George Roumeliotis
Response #1 to Arianna’s post
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Arianna on the fact that Holden is scared to get close to people because he thinks they are going to go away and cause him suffering like his brother. Also she makes a good point that Holden didn’t change in the novel. From the beginning to the end Holden was narrating his life and how he ended up in a psychiatric facility (loony bin). He wasn’t the boy he portrayed himself to be, he was in fact a confused schoolboy who was unhappy and saw the bad in everything…..except his sister.
POST#1 QUESTION#12
ReplyDeleteThis last line is very significant to the overall theme of the book. It implies that Holden has not completely grown out of being a child, in the way that he finds it difficult to break bonds. An example of this would be the gloves that were stolen. Holden reminisces about the loss (Pg. 89) and constructs an alternate scenario in which he finds them. Holden’s reluctance to ‘let go’ is made obvious by his frequent imaginary conversations to his deceased younger brother (Pg. 98-99, 198) and of his random memory of James Castle (Pg. 170-171), a boy who Holden barely knew. Holden’s self-alienation is simply a front: (yes, a colon) he fears getting close to people in the case he gets hurt, but he subconsciously sees people who he interacts with as important to him, thus making it easy for him to ‘miss’ them. Allie’s death triggered Holden’s self-alienation, by showing Holden how painful it could be to lose somebody, which in turn caused him to desire to bond with people who he remembered. “…I sort of miss everybody I told about.” (Pg. 214)
Holden says the line in the manner he says any other: (another colon) casually and without serious thought. Holden as a character is simply stating his feelings, but Mr. Salinger uses this line to show how much Holden has developed throughout the story.
-Aragorn
Response #3 to E—I mean, “Aragorn”’s post
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Go-Go’s post, he derives a clear point that Holden has not yet fully grown and still lingers in his childhood. Holden still has trouble letting go and going on with his life. Go-Go mentions all the possible reasons as to why Holden is still immature which include Holden creating alternative past memories (i.e. the glove scenario on pages 88 & 89, him inviting Allie to go to Lake Sedebego with Bobby on page 98). Holden tells us to not tell anybody anything, else we’ll start missing everybody we talk about (214), which goes to show that he has made bonds with the people in his life and as Go-go said: “he subconsciously sees people who he interacts with as important to him”.
I disagree with a few posts that Holden’s last few lines advise us to self-alienate ourselves because he’s simply stating not the reminisce about our past to others, NOT to cut off all connections with society.
*P.S. As I was checking the blog to see if all my posts were done, I realized that for some odd reason, my response to Ariana's post that I wrote on Sunday mysteriously disappeared. So, just make sure your posts are still there.
ReplyDeleteResponse #3 to Ariana’s Post:
I appreciate Ariana’s interpretation on the final lines, “Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody”. However, I understood it another way. On page 214, Holden says, “About all I know is, I sort of miss everybody I told about. Even old Stradlater and Ackley, for instance. I think I even miss that goddam Maurice.” Holden did not relate to any of them. Therefore, it wasn’t the “connection” with these individuals that caused the “suffering” that Holden faces, but more the impact or influence that they had on him. Without them, Holden would not have made changes in his life, for example, on page 213 Holden mentions that he visits a psychoanalyst and has applied to a school. These changes demonstrate improvement in the state of mind. Holden is willing to turn is life around to make it better, even if that means that “he ends up in a hospital of some sort where he is being treated for depression”. He’s not denying the fact that he has problems! Instead, he’s facing the facts and is accepting all the help he can get in order to have a better view on life. Thus, Holden must feel better than he did throughout the story.
The last line to me can be interpreted in different ways. Some may see it as typical old Holden being closed off to the world and from people. To me however it seems likes he’s changed, that he finally acknowledged that other people are around but also that he cares for them; for someone other than his family. “Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody”. The last line though still sounds depressing because it’s almost telling you to not go out and find a connection with another human; its Holden’s way of giving advice through everything he’s learned in his short life. Since reading the novel and knowing what Holden is like, one doesn’t expect him to be cheerful. He sees the world that way, this certain idea has been instilled in him due to all the unfortunate events he had to go through; it shaped his way of seeing life and can now not be changed. I would never follow his advice. He seems to be disappointed with the fact that people know parts of his life, but at least for once he seems to be feeling something towards those he used to call phony that isn’t phoniness.
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