On page 152 Holden is quite drunk and encounters the club's piano player. What is the significance of Holden's reply that he has "no home to go to"? Does Holden truly feel this is true? Why does he say it?
When Holden drunkenly states that he has "no home to go to" (152) to a piano player at the club, he feels as if nobody is there to care for him and because of that he is forever trapped in desolation.
Holden feels this way because he was recently kicked out of private school (2), left the student housings after getting into a fist fight with his roommate (52), got beat up and robbed by a pimp (103), ruined his date with Sally who rejected his offer to elope (132) and went to a bar to meet his old student advisor who was uninterested in anything he had to say (149). In short, it's clear that Holden feels rejected from society. All friendly relationships between Holden and people around his age have been pretty much severed at this point.
Holden doesn't even have a bed to sleep in because he left his student housings. He cannot return to his family because if they were to find out that Holden had dropped out of school they would not take the information well and most likely be furious. Holden also mentions that his mother is a very fragile woman, and would not be able to cope with the news on page 107: "She hasn't felt too healthy since my brother Allie died. She's very nervous. That's another reason why I hated like hell for her to know I got the ax again."
Holden being alone can also be due to his need of isolation. Holden often has chances to call people in the book but always hesitates, cutting off any contact from his loved ones. On page 116, Holden tries to call Jane. Her mother picks up the phone and Holden hangs up because he "didn't feel like getting involved in a long conversation and all with her". At the beginning of the book, he even had a moment to go see Jane, but he said that he was simply "...not in the mood..." (33). Holden's failure to find a friend is partly brought up by himself, because he is avoiding the opportunity to see someone that he highly regards and gets along with.
I couldn't have said it better myself! Patricia neatly and effectively lists every possible reason why Holden would state to the piano player that he has "no home to go to". The endless rejection from girls, school, friends, family and even strangers he's only met once or twice builds an overwhelming sense of loneliness within him.
Having no bed to sleep in at night, no real companions around him or a girl that can put with him, Holden feels that there is no place he can actually call home.
When Holden replies to the club’s piano player, saying he has “no home to go to”, he meant it. He can’t return to Pencey Prep now that he got kicked out, and he can’t go home because then he would have to explain to his family as to why he’s home early. These are some minor issues. Not only is he missing a home, but he is also missing a place in society.
Despite Holden’s constant efforts to communicate with colleagues and to get a date with a girl, he fails. His date with Sally ended quite soon after he tried to convince her to leave the city with him. Right after this, he tried to have a conversation with an old colleague, Old Luce. Being a reader, it was quite obvious as to how desperate Holden was to have a productive conversation with Luce. However, Old Luce was not interested in Holden’s immature manner, since he was talking about Luce’s sex life. Therefore, he also left rapidly. On pg. 153, Holden says, “I was crying and all ….. I guess it was because I was feeling so damn depressed and lonely.” At some points in the novel, Holden accepts the fact that he is lonely. Therefore, when he states that he has “no home to go to”, not only is he meaning that he doesn’t have a place to sleep in, but also that he doesn’t have a home in society.
His reply signifies his loneliness which is the cause of him feeling depressed. It represents Holden’s cries for companionship and his rejection from society.
I would like to be able to say something original, but it has been said in my opinion. Holden doesn't have a home to go to, period.
I don't think it's about his Home, though. I think he doesn't feel at home with other people. You can have somewhere to sleep at night, but I feel that it doesn't count unless there's someone to wake up to. Not literally. In the sense that Holden needs to have relationships with the people around him that can satisfy him spiritually. Yes, Holden has a family that's been there for him, including his sister who will still break her back for him. He has Mr. Antolini who offers an endless amount of wisdom. But Holden doesn't really have any friends his age that he can relate to, share experiences with or just be himself around.
He feels alienated from everyone else. When you're at home, you feel comfortable, at ease and you have a sense of belonging. I'm sure everyone understands that feeling. Well, Holdon does not. I have read the whole book (Okay, you caught me.. MOST of it!) and I have yet witnessed a moment where Holden is with someone and he feels completely relaxed and comfortable with being himself around them. Whether he's feeding them with lies or just struggling to prove his one-dimensional point of view towards the world in which he's surrounded by.
He's rejected, plain and simple. No one likes to be rejected, Holdon is no exception. Pensey rejected him, X and Y chromosomes reject him and the "Phony" world he lives in rejects him. Where and when do you expect olden Caulfield to possibly feel at home?
Patricia's post clearly indicates many--if not, all--the reasons as to why Holden apparently doesn't have a home to return to and I completely agree with her.
His constant alienation (i.e. Not calling up Jane when he had the chance on page 33) and rejection in society (As Patricia stated: he was recently kicked out of private school (2), left the student housings after getting into a fist fight with his roommate (52), got beat up and robbed by a pimp (103), ruined his date with Sally who rejected his offer to elope (132) and went to a bar to meet his old student advisor who was uninterested in anything he had to say (149)") simply makes him a one-man wolf pack, or so he feels. After going through all of what was previously mentioned, the feeling of loneliness accumulated and after a while, it started sinking into him that he was alone in this world, with no place to go because wherever he went, he would constantly end up alone. When the pianist asked him to kindly skedaddle, Holden replies with an answer that shows the readers that he thinks there’s nobody that’s got his back in this world and that he has nobody to turn to if ever something arises and he is in need of help.
RESPONSE #2 to Patricia’s post I agree with Patricia when she states that Holden feels as if there is no one there to care for him and that he is trapped in desolation. From the time Holden stepped out of Pencey, his life began a downward spiral with very few uplifting moments. At this point, as Patricia stated, Holden has gone through many rejections, and has just about reached his breaking point. In this part of the novel, he is the most vulnerable because he is alone, drunk, and depressed. These overwhelming emotions combined with every rejection that Holden has had to face can be the reason Holden begins to have suicidal thoughts, such as “[...] I’m sort of glad they’ve got the atomic bomb invented. If there’s ever another war, I’m going to sit the hell on top of it. I’ll volunteer for it, I swear to God I will.” (141) and he even begins to plan or imagine his funeral (155). Holden has reached the lowest point of his life, and the reader can only hope that it will get better for him. When Holden says he has no home to go to, he meant it literally and figuratively. He has lost his place at Pencey, and his parents do not know that he has been kicked out of school, so he is not welcome at home at the moment. Even if he does go home, he’ll be going home to a mother who still grieves her youngest son, a father who is a ‘phony’, a missing older brother, as well as a younger sister who realizes that her older brother has serious psychological issues. Holden doesn’t have much to look forward to, and that makes him depressed and alone. - Faria
Pavitha brings out a good point that Holden has no home in society. He isn’t your “normal” teenage boy. What guy asks a girl to leave the city with him after one date? Not many that for sure. When Holden says he has “no home to go to”, it’s like what Pavitha said, he got kicked out of Pencey and he can’t go to his parents’ house because they’ll ask for an explanation on what happened and why he got kicked out. Holden has feelings and he feels lonely and rejected when he makes that comment.
Response #1 to Patricia’s post. Patricia mentioned very clearly that Holden was alienated in society. Holden says he has ‘no home to go to’ because that is the truth. He was kicked out of boarding school and he couldn’t go to his home because his parents would be furious. Holden doesn’t have a place to sleep other than the hotel, no friends to turn to for a shoulder to lean on and he has no one to count on. Patricia expressed perfectly about Holden’s lack of home
Like many before me have replied and said, Patricia answered the question perfectly, pointing out all the possible reasons for Holden to drunkenly, and very openly, declare that he “had no home to go to” on page 152. Holden suffers from depression and loneliness. He literally has no home to go to, no bed to sleep in because he has been kicked out of his school. He also has a very tough time maintaining friendships. Someone with friends knows that they will always have a place to go when they need it, and unfortunately Holden cannot feel this way since all of is friendships are corrupted. Add failed friendships, the chronic feel of rejection from society, secrets he keeps from his parents and his need for isolation and you get a very lonely Holden who indeed does feel as though he has no proper home to go to.
It is true that Holden didn’t really have a place to sleep that night, (thank you Patricia) but the context in which Holden says this is somewhat questionable. Holden might have been referring to ‘home’ as a place where he lives and belongs. He did in fact go home that night and “knew [he] was home… [His] foyer has a funny smell that doesn’t smell like anyplace else.” (Pg. 158) Holden also might have been referring to a place of rest, where he can ‘hit the sack’. In that case, he ought to have remembered Mr. Antolini, or even the train station.
When Holden says this, he gives the impression that he’s not really caring about what is coming out of his mouth. It sounds like Holden is simply making (drunken) small talk. While Holden probably won’t even remember the conversation he had, what he said was very significant. Holden has alienated himself to a degree that most people don’t even want to help him. On several whims, he spends a ‘small fortune’, and winds up emotionally wasted, and feeling as though he has nowhere to go, up to the point of imagining his death. There is a song for that, I think.
This is the overall low point of the story, the point where his break down is at the worst. But the fact that the memory of Phoebe shook him from his black mood proves how important their relationship is to him.
Response #2 to Patricia's post and everyone that agreed with her Question #9
I completely agree with Patricia and subsequently everyone who agreed with her... Holden says he “no home to go” because of all the recent negative activity in his life being kicked out of Pency rejected by who he thought were friends. But most of all, too afraid to return home to face his parents letting them know he had let them down, again. So he has been forced to live in a hotel room that was not homey or for that matter comfortable... Even when the opportunity had arisen to be with someone he turned it down because of how disassociated he felt.
Response 1 I agree with Patricia who has clearly stated the many reasons why Holden would say he has "no home to go to". I liked the fact that she mentioned Holden does not even have a place to sleep and cannot return to his family because this is the most direct way someone can interpret the sentence. Without all the deep analysis we are just left with Holden who has no home to go to because his own family would be very upset. Holden does not want to suffer the consequences from his parents and does not want his parents to suffer knowing he is a failure at school. -Christopher Wong
Holden’s response to the piano player that told him to go home signifies his lack of clarity in his life at this point in time. Holden really has no stable place to return to. He has been expelled and therefore no longer has a dorm. Everything is temporary because he is running away from his problems and generally avoiding confrontations with people that intimidate him, such as his parents.
Everywhere he has gone and anywhere he can possibly go to seem to be obstacles for Holden. Everyone is pushing him away and he is alienated from society. His education, his relationships with girls, his friends, they all have disappeared. He has been in bad situations and has gone through tough times. Holden has no home to sleep in and no place to fit in, in society.
Often, Holden has tried to bond with others yet never succeeds. There was always an excuse preventing him to connect with another person. On the rare occasions that he does, he drifts into talking about something uncomfortable with the goal of escaping loneliness. For example, when he is rambling on about future plans with Sally and he is saying things like: “How would you like to get the hell out of here? Here’s my idea.” (p.132)
Holden feels like he has never belonged. He has always had a brick wall that stops him from revealing too much information about himself and becoming comfortable with someone. Holden judges everyone as phony and won’t allow them to become his companion. He acknowledges that he is lonely yet he isolates himself to feel safe in his own little bubble of thoughts and judgements. Like on page 2 and 3, when everyone is down watching the football game and he decided he’d rather be all alone. He therefore really does feel he has no home. Holden is separated from society and doesn’t have the courage to let anyone in as shown in the quote: “Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.” (p.214)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletePOST #3 QUESTION #9
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden drunkenly states that he has "no home to go to" (152) to a piano player at the club, he feels as if nobody is there to care for him and because of that he is forever trapped in desolation.
Holden feels this way because he was recently kicked out of private school (2), left the student housings after getting into a fist fight with his roommate (52), got beat up and robbed by a pimp (103), ruined his date with Sally who rejected his offer to elope (132) and went to a bar to meet his old student advisor who was uninterested in anything he had to say (149). In short, it's clear that Holden feels rejected from society. All friendly relationships between Holden and people around his age have been pretty much severed at this point.
Holden doesn't even have a bed to sleep in because he left his student housings. He cannot return to his family because if they were to find out that Holden had dropped out of school they would not take the information well and most likely be furious. Holden also mentions that his mother is a very fragile woman, and would not be able to cope with the news on page 107: "She hasn't felt too healthy since my brother Allie died. She's very nervous. That's another reason why I hated like hell for her to know I got the ax again."
Holden being alone can also be due to his need of isolation. Holden often has chances to call people in the book but always hesitates, cutting off any contact from his loved ones. On page 116, Holden tries to call Jane. Her mother picks up the phone and Holden hangs up because he "didn't feel like getting involved in a long conversation and all with her". At the beginning of the book, he even had a moment to go see Jane, but he said that he was simply "...not in the mood..." (33). Holden's failure to find a friend is partly brought up by himself, because he is avoiding the opportunity to see someone that he highly regards and gets along with.
-Patricia
Response #2 to Patricia's Post...
ReplyDeleteI couldn't have said it better myself! Patricia neatly and effectively lists every possible reason why Holden would state to the piano player that he has "no home to go to". The endless rejection from girls, school, friends, family and even strangers he's only met once or twice builds an overwhelming sense of loneliness within him.
Having no bed to sleep in at night, no real companions around him or a girl that can put with him, Holden feels that there is no place he can actually call home.
-Nikki Marcolefas
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletePost #3 Question #9
ReplyDeleteWhen Holden replies to the club’s piano player, saying he has “no home to go to”, he meant it. He can’t return to Pencey Prep now that he got kicked out, and he can’t go home because then he would have to explain to his family as to why he’s home early. These are some minor issues. Not only is he missing a home, but he is also missing a place in society.
Despite Holden’s constant efforts to communicate with colleagues and to get a date with a girl, he fails. His date with Sally ended quite soon after he tried to convince her to leave the city with him. Right after this, he tried to have a conversation with an old colleague, Old Luce. Being a reader, it was quite obvious as to how desperate Holden was to have a productive conversation with Luce. However, Old Luce was not interested in Holden’s immature manner, since he was talking about Luce’s sex life. Therefore, he also left rapidly. On pg. 153, Holden says, “I was crying and all ….. I guess it was because I was feeling so damn depressed and lonely.” At some points in the novel, Holden accepts the fact that he is lonely. Therefore, when he states that he has “no home to go to”, not only is he meaning that he doesn’t have a place to sleep in, but also that he doesn’t have a home in society.
His reply signifies his loneliness which is the cause of him feeling depressed. It represents Holden’s cries for companionship and his rejection from society.
I would like to be able to say something original, but it has been said in my opinion. Holden doesn't have a home to go to, period.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's about his Home, though. I think he doesn't feel at home with other people. You can have somewhere to sleep at night, but I feel that it doesn't count unless there's someone to wake up to. Not literally. In the sense that Holden needs to have relationships with the people around him that can satisfy him spiritually. Yes, Holden has a family that's been there for him, including his sister who will still break her back for him. He has Mr. Antolini who offers an endless amount of wisdom. But Holden doesn't really have any friends his age that he can relate to, share experiences with or just be himself around.
He feels alienated from everyone else. When you're at home, you feel comfortable, at ease and you have a sense of belonging. I'm sure everyone understands that feeling. Well, Holdon does not. I have read the whole book (Okay, you caught me.. MOST of it!) and I have yet witnessed a moment where Holden is with someone and he feels completely relaxed and comfortable with being himself around them. Whether he's feeding them with lies or just struggling to prove his one-dimensional point of view towards the world in which he's surrounded by.
He's rejected, plain and simple. No one likes to be rejected, Holdon is no exception. Pensey rejected him, X and Y chromosomes reject him and the "Phony" world he lives in rejects him. Where and when do you expect olden Caulfield to possibly feel at home?
Response #2 to Patricia Petit Liang's Post
ReplyDeletePatricia's post clearly indicates many--if not, all--the reasons as to why Holden apparently doesn't have a home to return to and I completely agree with her.
His constant alienation (i.e. Not calling up Jane when he had the chance on page 33) and rejection in society (As Patricia stated: he was recently kicked out of private school (2), left the student housings after getting into a fist fight with his roommate (52), got beat up and robbed by a pimp (103), ruined his date with Sally who rejected his offer to elope (132) and went to a bar to meet his old student advisor who was uninterested in anything he had to say (149)") simply makes him a one-man wolf pack, or so he feels. After going through all of what was previously mentioned, the feeling of loneliness accumulated and after a while, it started sinking into him that he was alone in this world, with no place to go because wherever he went, he would constantly end up alone. When the pianist asked him to kindly skedaddle, Holden replies with an answer that shows the readers that he thinks there’s nobody that’s got his back in this world and that he has nobody to turn to if ever something arises and he is in need of help.
RESPONSE #2 to Patricia’s post
ReplyDeleteI agree with Patricia when she states that Holden feels as if there is no one there to care for him and that he is trapped in desolation. From the time Holden stepped out of Pencey, his life began a downward spiral with very few uplifting moments. At this point, as Patricia stated, Holden has gone through many rejections, and has just about reached his breaking point. In this part of the novel, he is the most vulnerable because he is alone, drunk, and depressed. These overwhelming emotions combined with every rejection that Holden has had to face can be the reason Holden begins to have suicidal thoughts, such as “[...] I’m sort of glad they’ve got the atomic bomb invented. If there’s ever another war, I’m going to sit the hell on top of it. I’ll volunteer for it, I swear to God I will.” (141) and he even begins to plan or imagine his funeral (155). Holden has reached the lowest point of his life, and the reader can only hope that it will get better for him. When Holden says he has no home to go to, he meant it literally and figuratively. He has lost his place at Pencey, and his parents do not know that he has been kicked out of school, so he is not welcome at home at the moment. Even if he does go home, he’ll be going home to a mother who still grieves her youngest son, a father who is a ‘phony’, a missing older brother, as well as a younger sister who realizes that her older brother has serious psychological issues. Holden doesn’t have much to look forward to, and that makes him depressed and alone.
- Faria
Response # 2 to Pavitha‘s Post
ReplyDeletePavitha brings out a good point that Holden has no home in society. He isn’t your “normal” teenage boy. What guy asks a girl to leave the city with him after one date? Not many that for sure. When Holden says he has “no home to go to”, it’s like what Pavitha said, he got kicked out of Pencey and he can’t go to his parents’ house because they’ll ask for an explanation on what happened and why he got kicked out. Holden has feelings and he feels lonely and rejected when he makes that comment.
Response #1 to Patricia’s post.
ReplyDeletePatricia mentioned very clearly that Holden was alienated in society. Holden says he has ‘no home to go to’ because that is the truth. He was kicked out of boarding school and he couldn’t go to his home because his parents would be furious. Holden doesn’t have a place to sleep other than the hotel, no friends to turn to for a shoulder to lean on and he has no one to count on. Patricia expressed perfectly about Holden’s lack of home
RESPONSE #2 TO PATRICIA'S POST
ReplyDeleteLike many before me have replied and said, Patricia answered the question perfectly, pointing out all the possible reasons for Holden to drunkenly, and very openly, declare that he “had no home to go to” on page 152. Holden suffers from depression and loneliness. He literally has no home to go to, no bed to sleep in because he has been kicked out of his school. He also has a very tough time maintaining friendships. Someone with friends knows that they will always have a place to go when they need it, and unfortunately Holden cannot feel this way since all of is friendships are corrupted. Add failed friendships, the chronic feel of rejection from society, secrets he keeps from his parents and his need for isolation and you get a very lonely Holden who indeed does feel as though he has no proper home to go to.
-Ariana
POST#4 QUESTION#10
ReplyDeleteIt is true that Holden didn’t really have a place to sleep that night, (thank you Patricia) but the context in which Holden says this is somewhat questionable. Holden might have been referring to ‘home’ as a place where he lives and belongs. He did in fact go home that night and “knew [he] was home… [His] foyer has a funny smell that doesn’t smell like anyplace else.” (Pg. 158) Holden also might have been referring to a place of rest, where he can ‘hit the sack’. In that case, he ought to have remembered Mr. Antolini, or even the train station.
When Holden says this, he gives the impression that he’s not really caring about what is coming out of his mouth. It sounds like Holden is simply making (drunken) small talk. While Holden probably won’t even remember the conversation he had, what he said was very significant. Holden has alienated himself to a degree that most people don’t even want to help him. On several whims, he spends a ‘small fortune’, and winds up emotionally wasted, and feeling as though he has nowhere to go, up to the point of imagining his death. There is a song for that, I think.
This is the overall low point of the story, the point where his break down is at the worst. But the fact that the memory of Phoebe shook him from his black mood proves how important their relationship is to him.
-Aragorn
Response #2 to Patricia's post and everyone that agreed with her Question #9
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Patricia and subsequently everyone who agreed with her... Holden says he “no home to go” because of all the recent negative activity in his life being kicked out of Pency rejected by who he thought were friends. But most of all, too afraid to return home to face his parents letting them know he had let them down, again. So he has been forced to live in a hotel room that was not homey or for that matter comfortable... Even when the opportunity had arisen to be with someone he turned it down because of how disassociated he felt.
~Justin
Response 1
ReplyDeleteI agree with Patricia who has clearly stated the many reasons why Holden would say he has "no home to go to". I liked the fact that she mentioned Holden does not even have a place to sleep and cannot return to his family because this is the most direct way someone can interpret the sentence. Without all the deep analysis we are just left with Holden who has no home to go to because his own family would be very upset. Holden does not want to suffer the consequences from his parents and does not want his parents to suffer knowing he is a failure at school.
-Christopher Wong
POST#3 QUESTION#9
ReplyDeleteHolden’s response to the piano player that told him to go home signifies his lack of clarity in his life at this point in time. Holden really has no stable place to return to. He has been expelled and therefore no longer has a dorm. Everything is temporary because he is running away from his problems and generally avoiding confrontations with people that intimidate him, such as his parents.
Everywhere he has gone and anywhere he can possibly go to seem to be obstacles for Holden. Everyone is pushing him away and he is alienated from society. His education, his relationships with girls, his friends, they all have disappeared. He has been in bad situations and has gone through tough times. Holden has no home to sleep in and no place to fit in, in society.
Often, Holden has tried to bond with others yet never succeeds. There was always an excuse preventing him to connect with another person. On the rare occasions that he does, he drifts into talking about something uncomfortable with the goal of escaping loneliness. For example, when he is rambling on about future plans with Sally and he is saying things like: “How would you like to get the hell out of here? Here’s my idea.” (p.132)
Holden feels like he has never belonged. He has always had a brick wall that stops him from revealing too much information about himself and becoming comfortable with someone. Holden judges everyone as phony and won’t allow them to become his companion. He acknowledges that he is lonely yet he isolates himself to feel safe in his own little bubble of thoughts and judgements. Like on page 2 and 3, when everyone is down watching the football game and he decided he’d rather be all alone. He therefore really does feel he has no home. Holden is separated from society and doesn’t have the courage to let anyone in as shown in the quote: “Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.” (p.214)