There are many examples of inconsistencies related to what Haulden says and does. These inconsistencies between Haulden's opinions and actions can make our narrator out to be quite a hypocrite. On the other hand, one might argue that this makes him a more likeable character. For example, Holden shows his kinder side when he invites Ackley to the movies despite his previous judgements of him. What do you think?
Base your answer on textual references.
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ReplyDeleteWell, my opinion is that the inconsistencies between his actions and his thoughts make him more "human". I'm not sure if the phrasing is good but "thinking" is the only place where we can actually say or do anything we want. No one is monitoring it, so we feel like we can do whatever we want. Which brings me to a totally unrelated quote:
“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.” --- Unknown
So in a way, it does become his character. And yes, it does make him hypocritical. Then again, if every single one of chronicled our thoughts, it'd be easy to spot the inconsistencies.
For example, this is later on in the book:(p. 126 last paragraph on the page)[SPOILER ALERT]:
"At the end of the first act we went out with all the other jerks for a cigarette. [...] You never saw so many phonies in your life, everybody smoking their ears off [...]"
Holden says "went out for a cigarette", so we can assume that he's smoking. Right after that, he calls everyone phonies because they're "smoking their ears off". I wish there was an italics or bold button so I can make my intended emphasis.
Now when Holden invites Ackley to the movie he says: (p.36 top of the page): "The reason I asked was because Ackley never did anything on Saturday night, except stay in his room and squeeze his pimples or something."
I'm not sure on the intrepretation of this quote, but I think Holden is being empathetic of Ackley. Holden knows the feeling of being lonely, and having the feeling that you're not as good as other people. I think he's doing what he would have liked someone else to do. However, I'm not too sure because he tends to alienate himself, and would he have actually accepted if someone else had asked him?
-Z
Post #1: Question #1
ReplyDeleteHolden is a superficial character who criticizes everyone around him for being "phonies". He is extremely judgmental and seems to think that he is better than others.
What he does not realize is that his actions often contradict his words, making him just as phony as everybody else is. Holden's phoniness is shown on the sixteenth page of "The Catcher in the Rye", where he claims to be the most terrific liar in the world. Phony is defined as something not real or genuine, while a lie can be anything that is meant to give a false impression. When analyzing the two words and their meanings, it is obvious that they come hand in hand and mean the same thing. By being a liar, Holden himself is being a phony and should therefore not judge others on something that he is guilty of as well.
Holden demonstrates his incredible fibbing skills on several occasions in the novel. One example is depicted between pages fifty four and fifty eight of the book, where Holden is on the train with a fellow student's mother. Holden spends the entire train ride "shooting the bull" and providing this lady with false information. He lies about everything possible. This includes his name, the woman's son's personality and even his health. It says a lot about a person when they pretend to have a serious illness for pure entertainment.
Another example of Holden's phoniness in the novel refers to his outing to the movies. On the third page, he claims to hate movies, saying: "If there is one thing I hate, it's the movies." He later contradicts himself, deciding to take a bus into Agerstown with Mal and Ackley to see a film on page thirty six. This shows that Holden often goes against his word and does things that he picks on others for doing.
Several of Holden's actions point out that he is hypocritical. He sees the world in simple black and white, black being the supercifial (phony) aspect of it and white being the opposite, but often commits actions which cross into both sides. There are certain times when he is aware of this two-faced characteristic and other times when he is not. J.D. Salinger uses this hyprocrisy to show that Holden is indeed not the superior person he thinks he is, challenging the reader to create their own opinion on Holden's behaviour.
ReplyDeleteFrom the beginning of the novel, page 2 to be specific, Holden points out his dislike for films, stating "Now he's in Hollywood, D.B., beign a prostitue. If there's one thing I hate, it's the movies." Here he shows his disapproval of his brother's involvement with Hollywood and films, comparing his line of work to that of a prostitute to say that D.B. is wasting his talents simply to gain money. He believes that movies are some of the phoniest things in the world and does nothing to hide this disgust from the reader. These thoughts are later contradicted in chapter 5, page 36, when he goes out to see a film. Although he does not particularly like the idea of going to see a film, Holden's willingness to go shows a bit of hyprocrisy. Salinger attempts to show that Holden is a regular teenage boy, one who simply wants to spend time with friends and enjoy himself. Going to the movies is a popular pass time for teenagers and by having Holden go see one, Salinger helps readers connect with the character.
Another form of Holden's hypocrisy is his ability to lie convincingly. Throughout the novel Holden constantly critises other people for their superficial behaviour but fails to focus his "almighty" perceptions on himself. In chapter 8, his ability to lie is shown when he meets the mother of a fellow classmate of his. During the course of this chapter, we see that he derives pleasure from this practical joke that he plays on the unsuspecting mother, showing his own superficial and immature behaviour, making him part of the phoniness that he so despises. But although he finds amusement in telling lies, we also see that HOlden feels remorse for themaswell. Salinger make this clear when he states "...I was right away sorry I'd said it..."(page 58) Salinger shows that although Holden does not generally have a problem with telling lies, he will genuinely regret some that he tells. This depicts Holden's sensitivity towards others, even if it is limited to certain occasions.
Overall, Salinger has created a very realistic character to whom people can relate to due to his actions and nature. Sadly, this is an opinion based question therefore people will dislike Holden for his actions and thoughts while others will like he for them. Personnally, the touches of likable personnality that Salinger gives Holden make him a character that I relate to because of such things as his occasional remorse for lies (Even though I would never tell a lie).
George
Post #1 Question #1
ReplyDeleteHolden is a sixteen year old boy who finds the ugliness and hypocrisy of everything around him. He tries to protect himself from the pain and disappointment of the adult world. He also tries not to let people know he’s weak and he covers that by calling people phonies and insulting them. When in the end, he’s just as “phony” as they are. Even if Holden may come off as a hypocrite, he still has a heart. He probably felt sorry for Ackley that he needed to spend his Saturday night at his dorm all by himself.
I think Holden sees a bit of himself in Ackley because Holden notices that he and Ackley were the only two guys that were not at the football game. Also, they both isolate themselves from the rest of the pack and they both like to criticize people for their own amusement. For example Ackley criticizes Stradlater and Holden criticizes everyone else.
Also, Holden went through so much trouble to convince Mal Brossard to let Ackley, someone who he doesn’t like and criticizes him by saying “…Ackley’s nail trimming and pimple squeezing…” By this description Holden makes him seem disgusting and not someone you’d want to go to the movies with, but he invites him anyways.
Holden is a confusing character and hard to understand because his “strong” opinions don’t usually match his actions.
Post: 1 Question: 1
ReplyDeleteI think Holden is a very negative, hypocritical, and interesting character because of the many actions and opinions he has on his surroundings.
When Holden introduces something around him, he always points out something negative about it. I think he does this to make rejection easier on himself. For example, when we are introduced to Ackley we are immediately exposed to how horrible he is. Holden never stops commenting about his awful hygiene and personality. Holden makes it pretty clear that he is not very fond of him. When Holden invites Ackley to the movies and Ackley takes a long time to answer, Holden says, "You'd think he was doing you a big favor" showing that he doesn't care his Ackley isn't interested and that he only invited him because,"Ackley never did anything on Saturday night, except stay in his room and squeeze his pimples or something." (p. 36-37) Another example of his "defensive judgments" is in the Lavender Room when the three women barley talk to him or show any interest to him, he simply calls them, "The three witches".
Another reason why Holden is a hypocrite is that he does the same things that "phony" people do. For example, his red hunting hat. On page 18 he says, "I swung the old peak way around the back - very corny, I'll admit, but I liked it that way. I looked good in it that way." Here, he describes his hat as corny. He also describes the corny clothes men wear, " [...] If somebody's father was one of those guys that wear those suits with very big shoulders and corny black-and-white shoes [...]" So. if he describes corny things with dislike, then what makes it okay for him to do corny things as well?
I think that a character like Holden is what makes the book so interesting to read. It is fun to criticize Holden's hypocrisy even though we are all hypocrites ourselves.
(Sorry, I forgot to include the post and comment # on my previous comment so I deleted it!)
I agree that Holden is pretty contradictive. He mentions more than once that he hates it when people are fake and phony. But then suddenly he’s all “suave as hell”. Sure, hypocrisy is a negative thing, but I would have to disagree in this case. Surprisingly I think that Holden’s actions make him more appealing to the reader because the reader can relate to his feelings and emotions. For example, despite being annoyed with superficial individuals, Holden would do just about anything to not be alone. Even if that means being corny too! He proves this in Chapter 10 when he meets the “older” women at the Lavender Club. He claims that they’re “dopey”, “ignorant” and that they’re only interested in seeing “movie stars”. However, no matter how much they depress him, he just can’t seem to leave. Allow me to rephrase: he doesn’t WANT to leave.
ReplyDeleteAs for his kindness shown to Ackley: My opinion is that, not only does Holden hate being by himself, but he hates seeing people alone too. It makes him sad. Although it’s not explicitly stated, I think Holden relates to Ackley. They are both, well I guess you can say aliens, trying to find their place in society.
To conclude, the reason why Holden invites Ackley to the movies is because he knows that Ackley “hardly ever goes anywhere” (page 19, paragraph 2, line 12) and maybe, because he wishes that someone would do the same for him.
P.S. Sorry if there's any spelling mistakes!
Holden is hypocritical person, he says one thing and does another. This is a very important aspect of the novel because it is internal conflict. It’s Holden VS Himself. He can’t cope with his everyday life because of his “lousy” childhood and he is unable to live up to his own standards because of it. He accuses others of “phoniness” to distract himself from his flaws. I personally think this (the hypocrisy) is what makes Holden interesting and keeps the reader from putting the book down.
ReplyDelete“...Ackley never did anything on Saturday night, except stay in his room and squeeze his pimples or something."
Holden invites Ackley to the movie, the same person he called “nasty” and said has “a terrible personality”. He describes Ackley as a terrible person and goes against himself by being nice to Ackley. On page 19 Holden calls Ackley “a very peculiar guy”. Peculiar is someone who is as judgemental as Holden is, who fails out of four schools and a virgin who is VERY interested in sex.
I don’t think The Catcher in The Rye would be as popular as it is if it wasn’t for Holden’s brutal honesty and judgement.
Holden is indeed a hypocrite but now a day who isn’t? As a 17 year old boy and human it is normal for someone to contradict themselves. His ridiculous honesty and contradicting ways is what makes the book “The Catcher in the Rye” more likeable and funny!
ReplyDeleteThat being said, Holden’s actions and thoughts of are more than just common brain babble but are instead giving us an insight into who Holden really is.
He seems to always put people down because of a fear of attachment or love. You can find this out because of how judgmental he is of everyone around him, regardless of whether they are nice to him.
Though it shows that Holden isn’t very fond of Ackley, it’s a normal response to feel sadness for someone who is constantly alone regardless of how you feel for that person. Holden considers Ackley to be dirty and annoying because he is constantly touching his personal things, but the two of them are quite similar; both seem to be lonely and but are afraid of doing things that don’t involve being by themselves. “Do unto others what you want done unto you.” He perhaps reaches out to Ackley to come watch the movie with him and his friend because Ackley is usually alone, as is Holden. This may reflect how his actions show that perhaps he too one day would like to be asked to join someone to go out.
Post #1. Question #1.
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden is a very hypocritical caracter because he calls everyone a 'phony' but he himself is 'phony' sometimes. Holden judges people that want attention when thats exactly what he wants. Personally, i dont think that Holden's hypocracy is interesting for me to read. It mostly upsets me because he seems to be all over the place. On page 16, he says: "I'm the most terrific liar you've ever seen" Holden constantly lies about everything but when other people are simply being kind he judges them and calls them phony.
Holden judges Ackley when he says: Ackley never did anything on Saturday night, except stay in his room and squeeze his pimples or something." page 36-37 He later asks him to go to a movie with him because I guess he can ralte to him, they are both unique individuals trying to find their way. I think Holden can relate to Ackley.
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ReplyDeletePost #1 Question #1
ReplyDeleteThe main goal of an author is to make their novel appealing, and what better way of doing so than making a character the audience can relate to? In "The Catcher in the Rye" by J.D. Salinger, the main character Holden is strewn with human characteristics that everybody--regardless as to whether or not they deny it-- possesses.
Hypocrisy is one of the things Salinger gave Holden; an example of his hypocrisy would be when he deems a person to be "phony". He judges a person as "phony" based on their appearances, the way they act or the way they talk like so: “[…] Mr Haas, that was the phoniest bastard I ever met in my life. […] old Haas went around shaking hands with everybody’s parents when they drove up to school. He’d be charming as hell and all.”(13 & 14) However, it surprises him when another individual judges someone else based on a biased one-time experience. An example of the aforementioned argument would be on page 136: "She told Roberta he was too conceited--and the reason she thought he was conceited was because he happened to mention to her that he was captain of the debating team. A little thing like that, and she thought he was conceited!" The fact that Holden didn’t find it right to judge a person based on what they say shows his hypocrisy seeing as he does the same thing.
When talking about Ackley, Holden doesn’t exactly give in a good word about him, much less, describe him appealingly. Surprisingly, despite the fact that he apparently wasn’t too crazy about him, he went ahead and invited him to go see a movie with him and this boy named Mal on page 36. This peculiar action portrays another human trait Salinger bestowed Holden with: empathy. Both boys tend to be alone and aren’t exactly the biggest social butterflies in their school. Ackley “never did anything on Saturday night, except stay in his room and squeeze his pimples or something.” (36) and since Holden was doing something that very night, he probably decided to invite Ackley so that the kid wouldn’t be spending another evening alone. Holden can in fact understand how it’s like being alone seeing as he too is somewhat of a loner and he knows that it isn’t always fun.
Holden’s hypocrisy does in fact make him a likeable character to some, but to others, he’s just another annoying character that they want to shoot. The reason why some people find him likeable is because he’s not just paper and ink to them; he’s become a little more realistic and relatable due to the fact that he was given human characteristics. Although, some would concur that the personality Salinger created was maddening and his thoughts were all jibber-jabber. Those people are also frustrated with his hypocrisy since it’s hard to keep up with his irritating thoughts seeing as he’s always contradicting himself. I personally don’t have an opinion about Holden’s personality because I’m very on the fence about it. It’s understandable that his thoughts are conflicting because who isn’t a hypocrite? But then again, sometimes there’s a line as to how much of a hypocrite you can BE and I sometimes find that Holden crosses that line. Just like I mentioned before, when Roberta was telling her friend about how a guy said that he was captain of the debating team and she thought he was conceited and how Holden thought it wasn’t right and yet he does the same as well. I mean, come on! At least try and think about what you’re saying and see if you’re applying it to yourself while you’re at it!
All in all, there’ll always be two rivalling sides when discussing whether or not Holden’s character is ordinary and likable and I unfortunately will be in the middle, neither being for or against it.
Response #2 Question#1
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kayla, when she states Holden is a phony at times. In fact, Holden is phony in many situations throughout the novel. An example is when he meets Ernie’s mother in the train. Nearly everything he tells her is a lie. He lied at times he really didn’t have to, like his name. He made Ernie seem like a hot-shot to his mother, while he really thought the exact opposite. ‘Her son was doubtless the biggest bastard that ever went to Pencey, in the whole crumby history of the school’.(p.54) He’s also phony at effort to order some drinks later on.(acting older)’,,I said it fast as hell, because if you can hem and haw, they think you’re under twenty-one and won’t sell you any intoxicating liquor.’ (p.69) Attempting to act suave to attract the three ladies at the bar was another scene where Holden acts phony. (p.70) Overall, I agree with the statement of Holden being phony.
Response #1 to Marina's post
ReplyDeleteI agree with Marina when she says that Holden is strewn with human characteristics that everybody possesses. Not everyone may agree but in many cases it is true. Trought the entire novel we see the world through Holden's eyes. We hear his thoughts and see his actions(which sometimes contradict his opinions). If we were to record our own thoughts or have them written down, in some cases, it would be similar to Holden's because of his hypocrisy and seeing himself different from the rest of the world. The fact that he seems different from most characters in stories is that he seems real. As Marina says that he’s become a little more realistic and relatable due to the fact that he was given human characteristics. His characteristics are what give life to Holden's character. Otherwise he wouldn't be a likable or relatable character.
In general, we may share some things with Holden but we don't realize it
Response #2 to Kayla Broome
ReplyDeleteBroome brings up a critical point that helps analyze Holden’s actions, which is that Holden can relate to Ackley. However it is of my firm belief that their being “unique individuals trying to find their way”, as Broome mentioned, has nothing to do with the sense of commonality mentioned. Although a shallow and insensitive observation, neither of them seem to be considered even remotely popular at Pencey or particularly talented at anything. This means that Holden was never on the “side where all the hot-shots are” (p.8) and that for him, there was “no game,” (p.8) possibly referring to the poor quality of his life as a direct result of his popularity and talent or lack thereof.
Holden very rarely invites others to accompany him. It is thus intriguing that he actually invited Ackley, a “peculiar kid” (p.19) who Holden “never even once saw brush his teeth” (p.19), to join him for a movie. The timing of this oddness is of great importance and must be noted. This happened shortly after his roommate Stradlater left to go on a date with Jane- Holden’s childhood friend who meant an awful lot to him. This may have caused Holden to feel a little down and therefore he didn’t feel “too good” for the likes of Ackley, who “never did anything on Saturday night, except stay in his room and squeeze his pimples or something.” (p.36)